LOS ANGELES (GMC) -- When I first met David Shaw three years ago, he was headed into his first season as Stanford's head coach, and there were still questions surrounding the man who would replace Jim Harbaugh. Remember, this was during a time when most outside observers expected the program to crumble into mediocrity after Harbaugh's departure, if only because Shaw appeared to lack the intensity of his predecessor. These pundits believed that Stanford would lose its edge without Harbaugh, as if a coach's mood instead of his recruiting, teaching, and game planning was the best predictor of his team's success.
We know what's happened. In three years Shaw has led the Cardinal to a 34-6 record, three BCS bowl game appearances, and two consecutive Pac-12 championships. You'd think that a track record like that, along with the validation it surely provides, would change an individual, but last month's Pac-12 Media Day gathering found Shaw no different than he had been three years previously -- relaxed, confident, and approachable.
I asked him a few questions during his assigned time on the dais, but most of what follows comes from a more informal extended session as Shaw sat with two or three reporters and discussed topics ranging from the broad to the specific. The questions I posed are in bold, while those from others are in italics. Enjoy...
Shaw:
We try not to concentrate on who we play or where we play, we concentrate on how we play. That's a saying that we have, but it really applies this year. You can look at and say, it's daunting, it's really difficult, one of the most difficult in the nation. But if you want to be really good, why not travel a tough road? Why not go play at these tough stadiums, all in one year? Why not? It's a test of who we are, it's a test of our character. Can we go on the road and play great football and come back the next week and go in another tough stadium and play great football again? That's the bottom line. And hopefully the schedule's not just tough on us. Hopefully we make some of these games tough on the teams we're going to be playing against, because we think we're a good football team, and a good football team should be able to go into another team's stadium and give 'em a heck of a game. That's what we plan on doing.
How much more prepared is this team given some of the success of the last couple of years, beating Oregon up there, the Pac-12 title game at Arizona State. You guys have done well.
Shaw:
That's been in spots. I'm curious to see what happens. When you play a couple of home games, then you go on the road for a tough game and win, that's different from being on the road two times in a row, then coming back home, and going out on the road again. That's a different mentality. We'll do some things to make sure we keep our legs, to make sure we're fresh for those games, but the mentality of going on the road... is just a mentality. You've got to be able to go in there and poke your chests out and say we don't care that we have sixty, seventy, eighty-thousand people screaming at us. We're here to get a job done.
The 2012 offensive line class that you were really high on -- could they all start for you this year?
Shaw:
There's no question. I believe the group is ready. We'll see for sure. We still have a couple of battles going on, but this could potentially be our most talented offensive line that we've ever had. It's not as experienced as we've had, and that's where it will be interesting, to see if this entire line can gel and come together and operate as one unit, as they have to for us to be successful. I'm hoping that happens early in the season. It might take a couple of games, just because of the lack of experience, but as far as the athleticism, as far as the ability that these guys have, it's exciting. Hopefully it happens this year. If it doesn't happen this year, hopefully it happens the next year, because this group should be together for the next couple of years. But I do hope it happens early this year and we can see these guys flourish.
GMC:
Where are those position battles? Is one of them at center?
Shaw:
We're still looking at center. Graham Shuler really finished spring really, really well, on a high note. He may have secured that center job. We'll see how he starts training camp, but I feel really good about where he is there. Johnny Caspar's finished strong at right guard, but he's gonna have some guys coming after him. Josh Garnett has solidified himself at left guard. Kyle Murphy's our right tackle; he's outstanding. And then Andrus Peat is just probably the best tackle in the nation, so he's pretty set there at left tackle.
GMC:
What's Josh Garnett weigh nowadays?
Shaw:
[Pause] I try not to ask him. But he doesn't look too big. I saw him the other day. I think he looks good. If he can stay in the three-teens, I think he's good. If he gets over 320 that's probably too big, but if he plays at 315, 318, it won't be too long before we're talking about him as one of the best guards in the nation.
How do you feel about being picked second in the Pac-12 media poll?
Shaw:
I don't think we've ever been picked number one, so it's par for the course. I don't really look at those things at all. They don't affect me one way or the other. I don't get motivated by it. You could pick us last, and I still wouldn't get upset by it because it doesn't matter. What matters is when games start playing, what happens at the end of each game. Hopefully we win more than we lose and find a way to be at the top of our conference. I would be shocked if somebody picked us over Oregon, to be honest. I don't mind it one bit. They've got a lot of guys coming back, as we do. My assertion, which I said last year, the best quarterback in the nation is Marcus Mariota. I think he was the best in the nation last year also. There is nothing like him in college football. So I don't mind that at all. Bottom line, we've still got to play the football games. We're going to have to go up to Autzen Stadium in a tough environment where they're gunning for us. It will be a tough game to win, but we'll go up there and give it our best shot.
Ted Miller (ESPN):
People always say, when you're not growing, you're falling back. When you're not getting better, you're getting worse. When you analyze your program, what are some of the things you guys need to do to get better?
Shaw:
I think for us to be able to handle all the things that come in the course of the season. You look at last year, and never making any excuses, we played phenomenal against every ranked opponent that we played, and we lose tough games against unranked opponents that we're supposed to beat. Even though when you watch on film, these are really good football teams. You're not going to find a more talented unranked football team than you had at USC or the Utah team that had Arizona State down, that had UCLA down, and had Oregon State down, and those teams came back and beat them. But they got us and made more plays than we did. But for us to be able to say, hey, we have to play a high level every single week if we want to be one of those great programs or be one of the best programs in the nation, we have to bring it every week. We can't back off just because we just played Oregon, and then we played Washington back-to-back, and we can't get up for the third week. That's not an excuse. We have to get up for the next week because that's where our conference is. The moment you take your foot off the gas pedal, you're going to take one on the chin.
GMC:
What is the running back situation like? How do you see that shaking out this fall?
Shaw:
I'm excited. Tyler Gaffney came in and took over last year, an dthere was no question about it. All the running backs saw it. He was on a different level. He was phenomenal. This year we have more variants. We have different body types, guys that do things differently. We have guys that have some natural ability, and we're going to give those guys an opportunity. I think if you ask any of those guys, I think they recognize the ability of different players. I don't know that there is a guy that says, I'm going to be the guy that gets those 30 carries a game. Instead, they look at the other guy and say, I can't keep Kelsey Young off the field. I can't keep Ricky Seale off the field. He does things that are phenomenal. I can't keep Barry J. off the field. He does things that are really special. We have a group of guys that have a lot of talent. I think they've actually gelled as a group. They feel like they're a tag team wrestling team. They tag off, and the next guy goes in to get it. I think we've developed that kind of mentality.
GMC:
Can you talk a little bit, in general, about leadership. Every year you're going to lose some leaders. Do you identify leaders in the recruiting process, or is it once they get on campus and start to interact with teammates? What's that process like?
Shaw:
We're in a unique position where we only recruit leaders. They have to be leaders. So we have a platform where all we're going to do is compete like crazy, and I'll never pick the leaders. Leadership just rises. So you have a group of leaders -- I hate to say that the cream might rise to the top, because that insinuates that the other guys are not leadership caliber -- but I think leadership has to be organic. It has to come out and come from within. As guys start to exhibit those leadership characteristics we'll see that without ever saying, "You're going to be a leader, and you're going to be a leader." Just like last year, we've always had two captains, and the [players'] vote was so close and so tight, we had to choose four because the players chose four. All of those guys were voted right about the same, which means the team felt those were the four best guys to lead the team. Who am I to pick two out of those four? These are the guys our team chose, and I'm going to put them in front of them.
GMC:
Of the incoming freshmen, which ones might we expect to see on the field this year?
Shaw:
That's so hard to say, because we haven't worked with them at all as a coaching staff. I know they passed an NCAA rule that allows you to spend some time with them, but we didn't do it. I don't think it's good for the players, I don't think it's good for the coaches. I want our coaches to go on vacation and get fresh. I want our guys to work together and build trust amongst the team before the coaches come in. But just ability wise, you're looking at Solomon Thomas -- can he come in and give us some depth on the defensive line? We'll see. We bring in four linebackers. We'll see if somebody can help us on special teams and maybe help us on defense. Joey Alfieri and Bobby Okereke, to name two. Christian McCaffrey is just a phenomenal football player. Whether he can help us on special teams or help us on offense, we'll see as we get going. Casey Tucker, we'll see if he can help us on the offensive line, much like Kyle Murphy and those guys did their freshmen year. I just named a few guys. We won't really know until we get probably at least midway through training camp.
Kyle Bonagura (ESPN):
Ideally, would you like to redshirt as many as possible, though? Should that be the goal every year?
Shaw:
I think when we can, it's a luxury. We haven't always had that luxury. But at the same time, sometimes you have a guy like Ty Montgomery that comes in and midway through training camp you're saying, we gotta play this guy. We can't sit him. That might happen again this year, at the very least special team wise. We're bringing in this many athletic defensive backs -- Brandon Simmons -- that can come in and play for you, at least on special teams. This many linebackers that are athletic and fast. We're a little short on depth on the defensive line, so one of those young defensive linemen might be able to come in and spell our guys and get in the rotation. A guy like Christian McCaffrey, he's so dynamic with the ball in his hands, maybe he helps in the return game, maybe he helps in the backfield in some way, shape, or form. I'm excited about watching these guys and seeing if any of these guys can fill a role for us.
GMC:
You spoke about Ty Montgomery and his return from injury. How do you weigh his impact on a game versus injury risk? If he's your best return man, is that the only thing that matters, or do you sometimes think, I've got this other guy who's almost as good, so I'd rather protect Montgomery a little bit -- not in the context of this injury, but in general?
Shaw:
In general, I don't believe in protecting football players outside of the quarterback. It's football. He's gotta play. I'd hate to take the best kickoff returner in the nation, and not have him return kickoffs. That helps our football team. It's the biggest exchange of field position in the game, the kickoff return. He's just phenomenal at it, and he loves it. I'd hate to pull it away from him because he would hate it also. When he's ready to play, we'll turn him lose. I just think he's as dynamic a football player as there is in all of college football. You look at a game like Utah. We lost a tough, close game against Utah. We get blown out by Utah if not for Ty Montgomery. Kickoff return for a touchdown. He takes a receiver screen forty-something yards down inside the ten-yard line. He makes some unbelievable catches, he breaks five tackles on one run. Just phenomenal. He's got the ability to take over a game, so once he's cleared to go, we're gonna use him in any way we can.
Kyle Bonagura (ESPN):
Assuming Alex Carter is healthy, is this corner combination, with Carter and Wayne Lyons, as good as you've had?
Shaw:
That's tough to say until we really see it come to fruition. Wayne was great in the spring. It's the best football Wayne Lyons has played. He was awesome in spring, I'm so excited for him. Ronnie Harris played his tail off in the spring, and he's earned the right to play. He's going to go out there and play corner for us. It's nice to have at least those three guys in the rotation so they can stay fresh and healthy, but I'm really excited about all those guys.
How exciting is it that you have several more options at tight end?
Shaw:
I'll be able to sleep better at night, I think our quarterback will also. I think our receivers will, even though they'll have to share some balls to a certain degree. Devon Cajuste broke our school record for yards per catch for a season. You've got Devon Cajuste at 225 pounds who's breaking our yards per catch record, you've got Ty Montgomery, who's going to be up for every award, you've got Michael Rector, who averaged thirty yards a catch, although he didn't have enough catches to be recognized nationally. You've got these three guys who can affect the game. If teams start playing deep and playing over the top of those guys, our tight ends can really make some hay underneath. Our running game should take advantage of that also. Having tight ends back in the mix, athletic tight ends that can make plays in the passing game and be great blockers for us really helps us be that complete offense we want to be.
Is Dalton Schultz another true freshman who could factor in?
Shaw:
Ah, we'll see. I would love to redshirt him and have him really hit the weight room and really get ready. But he's one of those guys that when it's all said and done, he'll be like a Zach Ertz. He'll be that guy that can play at the line of scrimmage and then also flex out and run routes. He's a great teammate, very unassuming guy, very unselfish football player, doesn't care if he catches passes, he just loves to block and be physical. That's the mentality that we love to have in our guys. But he can have that mentality, but he's athletic enough to go out there and make plays for us.
GMC:
How has recruiting changed for you in the last five or six years? I would guess that four or five years ago you could say to kids, you can come in and you can compete, and they could realistically compete for playing time as a true freshman, but now the talent on the roster is so much higher. How do you manage that when you've got a kid coming in who's always been the best player on every team he's been on, and suddenly he's facing a year without being on the field?
Shaw:
I think sometimes we as older people don't completely understand it, but you have to remind yourself that great players look to play with other great players. If you're going to join a good team, they're going to have good players at your position. Sometimes situationally you'll be able to come in and play as a true freshman, maybe even start as a true freshman, but if you're joining a good football team, there's a chance you're gonna have to work your way up the pecking order. Some of those guys will still play as freshman, maybe not start, but as they get into their sophomore years they become big parts of what we do. And I think our guys have appreciated that we're not going to throw them out to the wolves until they're truly ready. Once they're ready physically, mentally, and emotionally as I say, we'll put 'em out there and let 'em go.
Having won this conference twice in a row, how does that help, whether it's confidence or whatever else?
Shaw:
I know it sounds like coachspeak, but I don't think about it. I honestly don't think about it. You talk about complacency, battling complacency, which every successful program has to fight, the moment that you are worrying about what you have accomplished is where you really start to have trouble. I can't do that. I just can't do it. I can't do it for a minute. I can't worry about what's been accomplished. I can't worry about what Andrew did, and what David DeCastro did, and what Chris Owusu did, and what Doug Baldwin and Richard Sherman did when they were at Stanford. I can't think about the past because that doesn't help us. I think about how tough our conference is and how hard our schedule is going to be. The moment that we take a deep breath and think about anything other than the next opponent, we're gonna get hit in the mouth. And I think that's the way it should be. Winning things are great, but the bowl rings and the bowl trophies -- that stuff's for after you retire. That's for looking back on. But it's not a time to look back right now. It's time to move forward.
GMC:
As a coach that's probably easier for you. You're always aware of the negative things that can happen if you overlook anybody on your schedule. But how do you keep 19-, 20-, and 21-year-old kids from overlooking UC Davis and thinking about USC?
Shaw:
What we try to do, honestly, is deemphasize the opponent no matter who it is. I say it point blank -- we're playing UC Davis this week. If you look at yourself as a great football player, should a great football player ever care about who he plays? Are we gonna practice harder because it's USC or Notre Dame? Well then that says something about us. If we're gonna practice harder for them than we will for somebody else, that says that we are gonna change who and what we do based on who we play. That puts the emphasis on our opponent and not back on us. For me, spending four years with Ray Lewis and one year with Jerry Rice -- Jerry Rice never cared who was on the other side. It could've been another Hall of Famer, it could've been another great player, or it could've been some guy who's name he didn't even know. He didn't care. His job was to beat that guy. He was gonna prepare like crazy to be at his best against whoever shows up on game day. That's the mentality that we try to infuse in our guys, that it's not who we play, but how we play that we focus on.
GMC:
So there's not an uptick in intensity for Oregon, for USC, for Cal?
Shaw:
There will be, that's natural. I still try to downplay it as far as the way we look at it organizationally and the way that our players need to look at the season. You can't go into a game thinking, I don't have to give my best this week. Number one, that's when you lose; number two, that's when you get hurt. Every game. We've only got twelve of them. Twelve times. Twelve times sixty. Twelve sixty-minute games, that's all you get. You can't take two minutes off. Your mind can't be anyplace else, and those few times we have to do what we do, we don't have time to look past anybody. Also, those statistics count. Those scores count. That's still saying a lot about who we are, and I'm really big at making players look at themselves and look at us as a team and say, "Who cares what we say, what we do says who we are." And if we're the team that backs off of an opponent because of who they are, that's not who I am. That's not who I want to be, that's not what I want to be part of. I want to be one of those teams where, hey, if we've got an opportunity to win, we're going to get after it. We don't care who it is, we're gonna give our best shot.
GMC:
With the new playoff system and people looking at the teams subjectively as well as objectively, is there going to be a voice in your head -- if you're up by ten with a minute left and you're on the five-yard line, are you gonna allow yourself to say, "You know what, another touchdown here would look nice"?
Shaw:
[Pause] No. No. I'll do what we typically do. Early in the season we don't care what the score is, we just go. We could be up by... it doesn't matter. There are so many things that we're working on, and we just go. Later in the season, I still believe in playing the game the right way. We're not gonna play for the polls, we're not gonna play for votes. We're just play hard. If for some reason we're up by three touchdowns, we'll run the clock out. That's just what we do. That's the way you play the game. I think a lot of mistakes are made, you give a lot of teams opportunities to come back also when you try to do things that are cute and you don't keep the pedal to the metal. We'll play the same exact way, and hopefully at some point that's enough.
GMC:
You talked earlier about not protecting football players, except for quarterbacks. It seemed like in Andrew's career, towards the end there were fewer designed runs for him. Do you think we might see that same trend this year with Hogan?
Shaw:
I think it's only natural. We did that with Andrew partially because we just didn't need to. We had a really good running attack, that's the thing. You look at Andrew's last year, we had an All-American center, a tackle that's been a starter for two years in the NFL, a guard who's been a starter for two years in the NFL, three NFL tight ends, four NFL receivers, and three NFL running backs. So we didn't need Andrew to run anymore. He loved it. He loved the gun and runs. He'd complain under his breath a little bit, like "Gosh, can we go back and run some more of those read plays?" And I'd look back in the backfield, and I would see Stepfan Taylor, Tyler Gaffney, and Jeremy Stewart, who's still with the Raiders, and I'd say, "We don't need you to run the ball anymore. We've got guys that can do it." To have a versatile attack, the gun and runs do help periodically, and I can see Kevin Hogan getting to that point, especially if our group of running backs really comes through and is what we want them to be, with our receiving corps playing up to their possibilities and having a group of tight ends. To say that Kevin Hogan needs to carry the ball ten times a game, it just might be unnecessary. It's still something to have, something he's extremely good at, so it's not just protecting him and not letting him to it, but if we don't need to, why bother? Let somebody else get hit.
With all the spread offenses throughout the game, do you still take pride in being unique and distinctive, focused on the run?
Shaw:
Absolutely.
How will that change? You've talked about all the running backs you have, but Gaffney was a unique creature. It's gonna be tough to play the way you did last year without him.
Shaw:
I don't know that it'll be tough to play that way. We don't have a back with his stature. We don't have a 6'2" 220-pound running back that runs a 4.4. We just don't have that right now. We've got some smaller backs, so maybe we won't do the pounding that we've done before, but we're gonna come to our extra offensive line sets. We've got some guys that can run the power play, run the counter play, and do all the things that we need. Run the ISO play, et cetera. So we'll still run the same offense. I think we have some more versatility in our backfield to be able to do some more different things with those guys. When it comes down to it, we want to be a physical, point of attack running team, and that's not gonna change.
Bonagura (ESPN):
What about backup quarterback? Do you know how you'll divvy up reps there?
Shaw:
We do a lot of splitting, as you guys may know, in training camp and throughout the season, where we'll be on two fields. We'll keep Evan Crower with Kevin Hogan, and Evan will be our backup quarterback and get enough reps to make sure he's ready to play. On the other field we'll have the two young quarterbacks, and we'll just rotate those guys and get them as many plays as possible, just to get them as much experience as possible so when it is there turn to compete for playing time and for a starting job, they're ready and have as much of the offense under their belts as possible.
Bonagura (ESPN):
Is there a chance that Burns passes Crower, or is it pretty solid right now?
Shaw:
I think it's gonna be tough. Evan Crower being a fourth-year senior, being in this offense for three years plus, it's gonna be hard for a guy in his second year. Forget about physical ability. None of that matters. You gotta go to the line of scrimmage, and you gotta know it all. You gotta get us to the right play. As I remind the quarterbacks all the time, your first job as a quarterback is to make sure the other ten guys know what to do and to make sure we're calling the right plays, the right protections, and the right run checks. We're a 60%, 55% running team. We need to be running the proper plays, so the quarterback has to have all those checklists, and he can't be 90%. He needs to be 99%, if not 100% correct on the plays that he chooses. It's going to be hard for a second-year guy to pass up a fourth-year guy, because he's gotta know it and know it cold. Ryan has made some strides, but it's not close. He's not close. That's where Evan Crower is right now. That's the thing with Evan. Evan is similar in stature and ability to a Sean Mannion. Evan's ready to play, it's just that he has Kevin Hogan in front of him.
Bonagura (ESPN):
Is Burns kind of comparable to where Evan was at that same time? It seems like Crower took a pretty big jump forward this spring compared to where he was a year ago.
Shaw:
Evan took a big jump this past training camp. Third year, it kind of all slowed down for him. He had some days in training camp where he was like 8 for 8, 9 for 9, 12 for 12, 13 for 14 and two touchdowns, and he was just on fire. He and I have talked about it, and I say, "You can play almost anywhere in the nation." But he just says, "Coach, I'm not thinking about transferring, I want to be here at Stanford, I want to be the quarterback here." And if Kevin does take off after his fourth year, he'll have an opportunity to battle for that starting spot. If Kevin comes back, he'll graduate so he'll be able to go someplace else if he wants to and not sit out. Evan's in a really good spot right now, and I'm really comfortable with him as our backup quarterback.
Bonagura (ESPN):
Since you brought that up, if Hogan were to return and Crower were to graduate and you have two other guys who look like they could be pretty good players, would you say, hey, this could be a great opportunity for you to go somewhere else?
Shaw:
I'd never want to talk a guy into leaving Stanford, but if you're walking out with your degree, and Kevin would be a fourth-year senior starting quarterback, there's no reason for Evan to sit behind him. I would help him go wherever he wanted to go, because like I said, he's ready to play. He's ready to plug in and play, and he's as good as many of the guys who are playing around college football right now, some really good players. He could step in and not miss a beat and be extremely good.
GMC:
On defense, a guy that we've been waiting for, Aziz Shittu. How does he look?
Shaw:
Really excited about Aziz. I had a quick conversation with him in passing the other day about how proud I was of him in the spring, taking that next step. He's so explosive, so powerful. Sometimes young defensive linemen are like big puppies. They have all this ability and they don't know what to do. Their paws are all over the place. But he's really focused in and understands how to get in the backfield, how to use his speed explosion, how to redirect to make plays and be a high-energy player, where to put his hands, how to understand the defense. It all kind of came together for him this spring, so I think he's gonna have a really good year.
GMC:
Is he gonna be an end or a tackle?
Shaw:
He's got the ability to do it all, so you could see him line up anywhere along the defensive line.
GMC:
James Vaughters?
Shaw:
James is ready. I thought he had a good year last year, overshadowed by...
GMC:
There were a lot of great linebackers.
Shaw:
Shayne Skov, who's in his fifth year, a captain; Trent Murphy leads the nation in sacks. I thought James Vaughters made some big plays for us last year. A couple of sacks, some big sack-fumbles, some TFLs that were outstanding plays. He didn't get the notoriety that he should've gotten, but you understand why with what Shayne and A.J. Tarpley did on the inside, probably one of the best tandems on the nation, along with the guy who leads the nation in sacks on the outside, Trent Murphy. It's easy to overshadow what James did, but I think James is set for an outstanding year as a senior.
